What Color Will The Foals Be? 2014

Sunset with the horses, July 2011
Sunset with the horses, July 2011

Faithful blog follower, most comments made on this blog, and friend, Sarah Griffin asked if she could do a post on the possible colors of the foals this year.  I said yes, so this post was written by Sarah.  Thanks Sarah.

If you have not read my post about who may have foals this year, it may be helpful to read that first.  Click on FOALS to go to that post!

Sandy

Nirvana, July 2013
Nirvana, July 2013

What Color Will The Foals Be?

I thought it would be fun to look at potential colors we may see in the foals born this year. I thought I would go over some of the basics of the genes used in these color predictions. The first is the base color which can be either black or red. “E” is the gene that represents black and it is dominant. A horse with an E gene will have a black base and may either be black or a color with black “points” (the black legs, mane, etc) such as bay, grullo, and dun. To have a chestnut base and display the chestnut color the horse must have two “e” (recessive) genes. These are the chestnut horses along with the palominos. A horse that is EE (homozygous black) will only produce offspring with a black base. Since each parent can only give one representation of the gene one parent may give an “E” and the other parent may give an “e” resulting in an offspring that is Ee. Ee is called a “red carrier.” While that horse will display a black base color they have the potential to produce offspring with a chestnut base. An example of this is the late black stallion Raven. His father was a sorrel stallion which resulting in Raven being Ee. Although he displayed the black color he carried the chestnut gene from his father, which enabled Raven to sire palomino and red roan offspring. The next gene is the roan gene represented by “R” being the dominant roan gene and “r” being the recessive non-roan gene. A horse that is RR is homozygous roan and will only produce roan offspring. A horse that is Rr displays the roan gene but also carries the non-roan gene meaning they can produce both roan and non-roan offspring. A horse that is rr does not have the ability to pass on anything but the non-roan gene to their offspring.  They only way they could produce a roan offspring would be when that offspring inherits the roan gene from their other parent. The dun gene works the same way as the roan gene with DD being homozygous, Dd being heterozygous (displays the dun gene, but also carries the non- dun gene) and dd not possessing the dun gene.

Moorcroft, Maelstrom, Galena and Nye, April 29, 2013
Moorcroft, Maelstrom, Galena and Nye, April 29, 2013

With my knowledge of the horses and their lineage I think I was pretty much able to figure out their different representations of these genes. Of course with them being wild horses they haven’t been gene tested so it’s hard to be 100% certain about all of them. If I wasn’t certain I left the dun and/or roan gene (depending on which/if any apply for a certain case) as heterozygous. And if I wasn’t sure on the E vs e I left it as unknown meaning the calculator took into account the different possibilities (EE, Ee, with ee applying to only chestnuts and palominos). When figuring out these genes it’s easiest to look at a horse’s parents and the offspring that the horse has produced. For example we know Blue Moon is heterozygous roan because his father was a solid dun and his mother was a blue roan. We also know that both Teton and Half Moon are red carriers because they produced a chestnut offspring. And also going back to the example of Raven, we know he has to be a red carrier because his father was chestnut meaning the only gene he could have passed to his son was “e”. And looking at the offspring that Raven produced also lets us know he must be Ee.
The calculator also doesn’t separate shades of a color. For example seal bay, light bay, dark bay, “average” bay, red bay all fall under the category of “bay.” The calculator also doesn’t have the color apricot dun, so in the horses that may carry that color gene it falls into the category of “red dun.”  It also doesn’t account for shading so coyote dun (ex: Jackson) falls into the category of “dun.”
And of course we can’t 100% predict or know what color the foal will be, but I think it’s fun to look at the different color possibilities that could turn up!  If we’ve seen one of these mare/stallion combos before I also added the colors we’ve already seen them produce.

Bristol, Kitalpha and Nova, September 2013
Bristol, Kitalpha and Nova, September 2013

Bristol x Kitalpha


75% Grullo

25% Red Dun

**Bristol and Kitalpha have produced a red dun foal**

Hidalgo, July 30, 2012
Hidalgo, July 30, 2012
Jewel
Jewel

Hidalgo x Jewel/ Icara (bay)

I think Jewel is actually a dark bay, but it’s hard to tell and even harder to tell with Icara so I ran Icara as both a bay and a black.

32.81% Dun
32.

81% Bay

12.50% Red Dun

12.50% Chestnut

4.69% Grullo

4.69% Black

Icara
Icara

Hidalgo x Icara(black)


18.75% Grullo

18.75% Black

18.75% Dun

18.75% Bay

12.50% Red Dun

12.50% Chestnut

Halo
Halo

Hidalgo x Halo


32.81% Dun

32.81% Bay

12.50% Red Dun

12.50% Chestnut

4.69% Grullo

4.69% Black

Fresia, May 18, 2012
Fresia, May 18, 2012

Hidalgo x Fresia


I wasn’t sure if Hidalgo and Fresia were homozygous for the dun gene or not, but since they’re full siblings they would likely both be the same so I calculated it both ways, but either way the most likely color is red dun.
(heterozygous dun)

37.50% Red Dun

18.75% Grullo

18.75% Dun

12.50% Chestnut

6.25% Black

6.25% Bay (homozygous dun)

50% Red Dun

25% Grullo

25% Dun

Fools Crow
Fools Crow

Fools Crow x Jewel/ Icara (bay)

32.81% Bay Roan

32.81% Bay

10.94% Blue Roan

10.945 Black

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Chestnut

Fools Crow x Icara (black)

43.75% Blue Roan

43.75% Black

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Chestnut

Fools Crow x Halo

32.81% Bay Roan

32.81% Bay

10.94% Blue Roan

10.945 Black

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Chestnut

Fools Crow x Fresia
(Fresia- heterozygous dun)


18.75% Grullo Roan

18.75% Grullo

18.75% Blue Roan

18.75% Black

6.25% Red Dun Roan

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut roan

6.25% Chestnut
(Fresia- homozygous dun)

37.50% Grullo Roan

37.50% Grullo

12.50% Red Dun Roan

12.50% Red Dun

Corona
Corona
Waif
Waif

Corona x Waif


93.75% Bay

6.25% Black

**Corona and Waif have produced several bay foals and a black foal**

Blue Moon
Blue Moon
Halcyon, July 2012
Halcyon, July 2012

Blue Moon x Halcyon

25% Grullo Roan

25% Blue Roan

25% Bay Roan

25% Dun Roan
Since Sitka and Shaman had so many foals, it’s most likely that they didn’t carry the “red gene” or we would have seen it show up somewhere along the line, so that would mean that Blue Moon isn’t a carrier either, which would prevent him from siring a red roan foal with Halcyon. But since we don’t have a DNA test to be totally sure, I decided to also do a calculation with him as a carrier. That results in it being 50% likely they would have a red roan foal (either red dun roan or chestnut roan), but we haven’t seen that yet. **So far Blue Moon and Halcyon have produced two nearly identical grullo roan foals.**

Isadora, September 2010
Isadora, September 2010

Blue Moon x Isadora


25% Grullo Roan

25% Grullo

25% Blue Roan

25% Black

Cappuccino, 2-17-13
Cappuccino, 2-17-13
Gabrielle
Gabrielle

Cappuccino x Gabrielle

93.75% Dun

6.25% Grullo

**Cappuccino and Gabrielle have produced several dun foals**

Custer, August 2012
Custer, August 2012
Leo and Fiasco, June 2012
Leo and Fiasco, June 2012

Custer x Fiasco


18.75% Bay Roan

18.75% Dun Roan

18.75 Dun

18.75 Bay

6.25% Grullo Roan

6.25% Grullo

6.25% Blue Roan

6.25% Black

**Custer and Fiasco have produced dun roan and grullo roan foals**

Coronado
Coronado
Fools Gold
Fools Gold

Coronado x Fools Gold


43.75% Dun Roan

43.75% Dun

6.25% Grullo Roan

6.25% Grullo

**Coronado and Fools Gold have produced a dun roan foal**

Dove and her filly, August 30, 2012
Dove and her filly, August 30, 2012

Coronado x Dove


16.41% Buckskin Roan

16.41% Buckskin

16.41% Bay Roan

16.41% Bay

6.25% Palomino Roan

6.25% Palomino

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Chestnut

2.34% Smokey Blue Roan

2.34% Smokey Black

2.34% Blue Roan

2.34% Black

**Coronado and Dove have produced a sooty buckskin roan foal**

Doc
Doc
Demure, July 2011
Demure, July 2011

Doc x Demure

37.50% Dun

37.50% Bay

12.50% Grullo

12.50% black

**Doc and Demure have produced a grulla foal**

Duke, July 7, 2012
Duke, July 7, 2012
Graciana
Graciana

Duke x Graciana


32.81% Dun

32.81% Bay

10.94% Grullo

10.94% Black

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut

**Duke and Graciana have produced a dun foal**

Helenium
Helenium

Duke x Helenium


35.16% Dun

35.16% Bay

12.50% Red Dun

12.50% Chestnut

2.34% Grullo

2.34% Black

Galaxy
Galaxy
Hera
Hera

Galaxy x Hera

43.75% Blue Roan

43.75% Black

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Chestnut

Garcia
Garcia
Greta
Greta

Garcia x Greta


32.81% Dun

32.81% Bay

10.94% Grullo

10.94% Black

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut

**Garcia and Greta have produced dun and dark bay/ black foals**

Gringo during the removals, July 2012
Gringo during the removals, July 2012
Jacinta
Jacinta

Gringo x Jacinta

70.31% Bay

25% Chestnut

4.69% Black

Galadrial
Galadrial

Gringo x Galadrial


82.03% Bay

12.50% Chestnut

4.57% Black

Tecumseh was seen breeding Galadrial in mid-September, so I also did a calculation with him.

Tecumseh, July 31, 2012
Tecumseh, July 31, 2012

Tecumseh x Galadrial


32.81% Bay Roan

32.81% Bay

12.50% Chestnut Roan

12.50% Chestnut

4.69% Blue Roan

4.69% Black

Horizon, July 7, 2012
Horizon, July 7, 2012
Juniper
Juniper

Horizon x Juniper

17.58% Dunskin

17.58% Buckskin

17.58% Dun

17.58% Bay

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Palomino

6.25% Dunalino

6.25% Chestnut

1.17% Smoky Grullo

1.17% Smoky Black

1.17% Grullo

1.17% Black

Jackson, February, 2013
Jackson, February, 2013
Firstorm
Firstorm

Jackson x Firestorm


32.81% Bay Roan

32.81% Dun Roan

12.50% Red Dun Roan

12.50% Chestnut Roan

4.69% Grullo Roan

4.69% Blue Roan

**Jackson and Firestorm have produced several bay roan foals and a blue roan foal

Galena, February 2013
Galena, February 2013

Jackson x Galena

32.81% Dun

32.81% Bay

10.94% Grullo

10.94% Black

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut

**Jackson and Galena have produced seal bay, grullo, and dun foals**

Hertiage
Heritage

Jackson x Heritage


16.41% Bay Roan

16.41% Dun Roan

16.41% Dun

16.41% Bay

6.25% Red Dun Roan

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut

2.34% Grullo Roan

2.34% Grullo

2.34% Blue Roan

2.34% Black

Jasmine
Jasmine

Jackson x Jasmine


16.41% Bay Roan

16.41% Dun Roan

16.41% Dun

16.41% Bay

5.47% Grullo Roan

5.47% Grullo

5.47% Blue Roan

5.47% Black

3.13% Red Dun Roan

3.13% Red Dun

3.13% Chestnut Roan

3.13% Chestnut

Morning Star, June, 2012
Morning Star, June, 2012
Hailstorm
Hailstorm

Morning Star x Hailstorm

16.41% Buckskin Roan

16.41% Buckskin

16.41% Bay Roan

16.41% Bay

5.47% Smoky Blue Roan

5.47% Smoky Black

5.47% Blue Roan

5.47% Black

3.13% Palomino Roan

3.13% Palomino

3.13% Chestnut Roan

3.13% Chestnut

Gaelic Princess
Gaelic Princess

Morning Star x Gaelic Princess

32.81% Dun

32.81% Bay

10.94% Grullo

10.94% Black

6.25% Red Dun

6.25% Chestnut

**Morning Star and Gaelic Princess have produced a black foal**

Hataalii
Hataalii

Morning Star x Hataalii


43.95% Dun

43.95% Bay

3.13% Red Dun

3.13% Chestnut

2.93% Grullo

2.93% Black

**Morning Star and Hataalii have produced a bay foal**

Irial
Irial
Audubon
Audubon

Irial picked up Audubon when she left Morning Star to go foal. When Ginger first saw them together the foal was already a couple weeks old (found May 8th) and Irial held onto Audubon and her filly for several more weeks before losing them back to Morning Star. While Irial had them he kept his little band well hidden so there’s a chance that Audubon got pregnant before she was able to be darted with pzp. If so, then Irial would be the father. She was mostly likely pzp darted once she was back with Morning Star and more visible, but if she foals later in the summer (probably unlikely) then Morning Star would be the father.

Irial x Audubon

32.81% Grullo Roan

32.81% Blue Roan

10.94% Grullo

10.94% Black

4.69% Red Dun Roan

4.69% Chestnut Roan

1.56% Red Dun

1.56% Chestnut

Morning Star x Audubon


17.58% Bay Roan

17.58% Dun Roan

17.58% Dun

17.58% Bay

5.86% Grullo Roan

5.86% Grullo

5.86% Blue Roan

5.86% Black

1.56% Red Dun Roan

1.56% Red Dun

1.56% Chestnut Roan

1.56% Chestnut

**Morning Star and Audubon have produced blue roan and dun roan foals**

Teton 2
Teton
Half Moon:trees
Half Moon

Teton x Half Moon

28.13% Bay Roan

28.13%  Bay

12.50% Chestnut Roan

12.50% Chestnut

9.38% Blue Roan

9.38% Black

**Teton and Half Moon have produced a flaxen chestnut foal**

Cloud, October, 2011
Cloud, October, 2011
Feldspar, May 20, 2012
Feldspar, May 20, 2012

Cloud x Feldspar

6.25% Dunalino Roan

6.25% Dunalino

6.25% Chestnut

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Palomino

6.25% Palomino Roan

6.25% Red Dun Roan

6.25% Red Dun

3.13% Smoky Blue Roan

3.13% Dun

3.13% Dun Roan

3.13% Bay Roan

3.13% Black

3.13% Blue Roan

3.13% Buckskin

3.13% Dunskin

3.13% Smoky Grullo

3.13% Bay

3.13% Smoky Black

3.13% Smoky Grullo Roan

3.13% Dunskin Roan

3.13% Grullo

3.13% Grullo Roan

3.13% Buckskin Roan

**Cloud and Feldspar have produced blue roan and palomino foals**

Innocentes, April, 2012
Innocentes, April, 2012

Cloud x Inocentes

6.25% Dunalino Roan

6.25% Chestnut

6.25% Chestnut Roan

6.25% Dunalino

6.25% Palomino

6.25% Palomino Roan

6.25% Red Dun Roan

6.25% Red Dun

5.47% Buckskin Roan

5.47% Dun

5.47% Dun Roan

5.47%Dunskin Roan

5.47% Bay Roan

5.47% Bay

5.47% Dunskin

5.47% Buckskin

0.78% Black

0.78% Blue Roan

0.78% Smoky Blue Roan

0.78% Smoky Black

0.78% Smoky Grullo Roan

0.78% Grullo
0.78% Grullo Roan

0.78% Smoky Grullo

Sunset in the Pryors, August 30, 2012
Sunset in the Pryors, August 30, 2012
Logo designed by Amber Bushnell
Logo designed by Amber Bushnell

28 thoughts on “What Color Will The Foals Be? 2014

  1. This is a very cool idea, thanks for sharing! 🙂 Feldspar’s and Innocente’s foals are going to be a real toss up!! I have to say I think some of the more unusual colours would be fun, I love the dilute possibilities. Looks like there are a few chances for a smoky black! And the roans always create interesting possibilities.

    Does the colour calculator have any kind of function for a sooty or flaxen gene?

    1. It did not have a function for the sooty or the flaxen gene. And yes, it’s really going to be surprising to see what color we’ll see from Feldspar and Innocentes! It really could be anything! It’s going to be fun to see what we get 🙂 I know I would enjoy seeing a smoky black foal. I think a dunalino would be cool too!

  2. Sarah, you did a fabulous job explaining horse genetics in this post. I actually grasped a good bit of it. The color of the famous Cloud’s offspring really look like a crap shoot with either mare. I really enjoyed reading this and looking at the photos to get a better sense of what the colors are. Thank you and thanks Sandy for posting.

    1. Thanks! I was hoping people would be able to make sense of the bit of background I gave on the colors! I’m glad I was able to explain it in a way where you were able to grasp what I was saying. I’m glad you enjoyed it!

  3. Wow, that’s an amazing amount of work you’ve done there Sarah!:) I won’t pretend to understand everything, but at least I’ve gained a little bit more understanding. Thanks to you, Sandy, for posting it:) This year I would absolutely love to see a little Isabella on the mountain;)

    1. Thank you! I’m glad you were able to gain some understanding. I know I would absolutely love to see a little Isabella 🙂 I’ve long been hoping that Juniper and Horizon would give us a buckskin so maybe this will be the year! There’s a good chance we may see one from another one of the pairings as well!

  4. So cool! Lots of work from both of you. It is very fascinating, and helpful to me to have it all laid out and where I can refer to it in the future. I’m not really into “data storage” in my mind anymore—maybe because one’s “memory cards” get filled up, with age, but I love opening up my mind to new stuff; even if I don’t retain it all. You guys did a great job on this—THANK YOU. I know I’ll never catch up with you guys who have been recording all this for so long, and I really do appreciate your sharing your conclusions. 🙂 And, it WILL really be interesting to see how many “little mysteries” emerge this year, what with all the temporary arrangements there have been during breeding season that we know about—plus the ones we don’t. 🙂
    I can’t help but wonder if Hidalgo may be the sire of Nova—she looks an awful lot like him, and like you say, without gene testing or DNA testing, it’s really hard to know for sure. At least we know the number of colors that will appear is somewhat limited because of the relative isolation of this herd on their range. Did you ever count up the number of possible colors your chart includes? I had never heard of “dunskin” or “dunalino”. Did you explain those and I missed it here? If not, could you? I have a question that maybe you’d like to answer for me. I may have asked someone before about this, but it won’t hurt to ask again, since I don’t remember what the answer was—What mare on the range at this time would produce a coyote dun like Jackson—and would that happen only if she were bred by him, or by some other combination? Was Jackson’s sire, Two Boots, considered a black, or dark bay, or what? With his dam, the beautiful Broken Bow being a dun, I’m wondering if maybe she and Doc would produce another coyote dun—but she would have been treated with PZP, wouldn’t she? It seems, the only other coyote dun on the range went with the Freedom Fund horses. I knew her name at one point, but don’t recall it now. Something like Augustine??? Anyway, THANKS AGAIN for all your hard work Sara and Sandy. Love this post ❤

    1. Hi Linda! Thank you! I will let Sarah answer most of these questions, but I can help you with a couple. I have Two Boots down as a Black. I also would love to see another coyote dun on the range. That would be some amazing to have another one of those rare colors. Yes, Broken Bow is being treated with PZP.

      As far as Hidalgo possibly being the sire of Nova. Anything is possible and so much happens that we don’t see. But remember, Hidalgo and Kitalpha are full brother and sister (Durango and Buffalo Girl), so she would have that red dun gene in her, and a Bristol/Kitalpha foal has a 25 % chance ,to be a red dun. I am still thinking Nova is Bristols.

      1. I had forgotten about the Durango connection with Kitalpha, so I’m betting Nova IS Bristol’s, too. It’s definitely better if she is. 🙂

    2. Nova does look a lot like Hidalgo, but I think she is Bristol’s. Kitalpha does carry the red dun gene from Durango. I don’t think many other horses frequent the area where Bristol and Kitalpha spend their time. A “dunskin” is a buckskin that also has the dun markings; stripes on legs, dorsal stripe, potentially shoulder bars. And a “dunalino” is a palomino with dun markings. The stallion Corona from the Sand Wash Basin is a good example of a dunalino. I’ll post a photo of him to your fb wall. I’m not really sure about the coyote dun gene. Broken Bow being a coyote dun I’m sure that her and Doc could produce one together. And I’m sure Jackson could sire one as well, but I’m not sure what mare it could happen with, if there’s some gene combination necessary. And yes, Augustina is a coyote dun and the daughter of Conquistador and Cavalitta and was born into the Freedom Fund. Juneau (removed with her colt Mendenhall in 2012) was also a coyote dun and she was the daughter of Gold Rush and Two Boots.

      1. Sorry if this makes things more confusing, but I’ve also heard dunskin referred to as dun with a cream gene. For example, Hightail is dunskin since Chino is buckskin. I’ve also heard Kybir (Kodiak?) referred to as coyote dun, but am not sure. Would anyone else say that he is? Also, what’s the difference between sooty and coyote dun?

      2. Seems like Two Boots was good at producing coyote duns. 🙂 I have a great pic of Juneau that I use for my presentations. Wish she were still out there. 😦 All the info I have lists Broken Bow as just “dun”. I have some other questions, but no time to ask them right now. Thanks, Sara and Sandy. 🙂

      1. I believe you are right, a dunskin or dunalino a horse that caries both the dun and cream genes. It’s a pretty popular color in quarter horses, example of Hollywood Dun It was a dunskin. I think Hightail is a dunskin as well, I have been looking at many pictures of her and she does look a bit different in color than some of the other duns, like a cross between buckskin and dun. 🙂

  5. Sometimes I wonder if Juniper isn’t a dunskin? In some pictures it definitely seems as though she has a dorsal stripe and maybe, just maybe, faint leg barring?

    1. Hmm, on second thought I retract my question! I just found some pictures of her lying down and definitely no dorsal stripe there! Must just be the shadows on some of the pictures where she’s standing up.

      1. A lot of horses seem to have very faint dorsal stripes. Not just in the Pryors, but in the domestic world as well.

      2. A lot of horses seem to have very faint dorsal stripes. Not just in the Pryors, but in the domestic world as well. It’s called counter shading.

  6. This link also helps explain the colors of dunalino (palomino dun) and dunskin. Like Clarissa said Hightail is a dunskin. But you probably wouldn’t realize that by just looking at her. She looks very similar to dun. Every color has a range. A good example of that is looking at shades of palomino. They vary from dark to a deep rich gold to a very light cream color. Every color has it’s own color range. In the case of dunskin on one end of the spectrum is the color is close to golden dun, but a little lighter. That’s where High tail lies as opposed to the more golden tones of the spectrum (think Chino.) Hope this helps answer your questions 🙂
    http://www.dungenes.org/combinations.htm

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s