“Protect Mustangs” Speaks Out Against TCF On PZP

Nye and Niobrara
Nye and Niobrara

To Read the entire article please click on PROTECT MUSTANGS.

Here is their Statement:

“Statement from Protect Mustangs

We are against the Cloud Foundation and BLM partnership for extreme PZP in the Pryors for the following reasons:

1.) It ruins natural selection.

2.) According to the National Academy of Sciences there is no evidence of overpopulation.

3.) Reserve design is the healthy choice for management.

4.) Risks of sterility could ruin the herd’s genetic viability.

5.) Unnatural and increased stress on wild mares from wild stallions continuously trying to breed them month after month, year after year, until they are allowed by mankind to have one foal.

6.) Man made fertility control drugs endanger the wild herds’ ability to adapt through reproduction to environmental stresses.

7.) The “Restricted Use Pesticide” known as PZP is not allowed on domestic horses–surely for safety concerns and therefore should not be allowed on native wild horses who have been misclassified as “pests” by the Environmental Protection Agency.

Natural selection has allowed native wild horses to evolve and survive for more than a million years. We believe it is unethical for a government agency and a nonprofit organization to go against natural evolution and manipulate breeding through excessive roundups and drugs approved for use as “restricted use pesticides”.

Now the public is witnessing the final phase of the Salazar Plan announced in 2009 (managing wild horses to extinction) using an EPA fast-tracked “Restricted Use Pesticide” called Porcine zona pellucida–a form of zona pellucida extracted from the ovaries of pigs.

And speaking of pigs, where are the pigs’ ovaries coming from? How were the pig’s ovaries extracted?

The Pryor Mountain Herd is already one of the two herds designated with “Treasured” status–that means they are protected and will never disappear. No need to sell out to  ”restricted use pesticides” for “pest” control!

“We are proud to be working with the BLM, and we hope our partnership with them will continue and may set an example for the management of other wild herds throughout the West,” said Ginger Kathens, Executive Director of The Cloud Foundation in the BLM’s top story released on August 12, 2013.

What happened to The Cloud Foundation fighting for America’s wild horses’ right to live their natural lives in freedom?

“Why is Ginger Kathrens now supporting the extreme use of PZP when a couple of years ago she appeared to be against using the drug, against ruining natural selection and against creating zoo-like settings on mountaintops?” asks Anne Novak, Executive Director of Protect Mustangs.”

IMG_8020

Please don’t forget to submit your comments against the increase of PZP in the Pryors.  They are due September 6.  Click HERE to find out how to submit your comments.

To learn more about Protect Mustangs,  Click on MUSTANGS.

Sandy

Logo designed by Amber Bushnell
Logo designed by Amber Bushnell

25 thoughts on ““Protect Mustangs” Speaks Out Against TCF On PZP

  1. I agree with them 100%!
    Now the fan’s of “TCF” can see the true colors of this organization! What the Heck are they thinking? Mark my words, if they pzp every mare on the range, then this will ultimately be the beginning of the end. NOt only that, but this herd is slowly being made “domestic” as they are
    losing their wild instincts because of what blm and others are forcing them into.
    What a huge mistake!
    I will for sure be sending in my comments, but as I said before, they will do what they want anyway and our comments go to deaf ears!!

    1. Thanks Lori. I will say this again, as I am sure everyone knows where I stand. I am not opposed to the use of PZP. BUT I am opposed to the OVER USE of it. The current program needs to remain in place, not rushed to be replaced with a much strong version.

      And please, we can not feel our comments are not heard. Because I still hold the believe that they will be. Let’s not make others feel it is of no use to comment. When we give up, that is when we lose.

      1. I had no intentions to make anyone feel that their comments are not heard. I am simply going by many years of comments from the public and the situation the Pryor horses are now facing.
        As I see it, most everyone is against this more aggressive pzp “management” and they have been for quite some time. Why then are we even at this point if they are listening to the public comments? Just my point and as always, my opinion!
        As I said above: “I will for sure be sending in my comments.”
        I will never give up either, but the horses need the officials in charge of “managing” to listen to what the public want, after all, it is public land!!

  2. We have soooo many people who want to protect our mustangs. We have the folks who stand by the BLM and we have the advocates who want them to run free…Now this? Descension in our own ranks? My god how strong WE COULD BE if we all got on the same side??????!!!!!!! I mean we ALL love the mustangs! If we could only find a common stand….think of it!

    1. Thank you for your comment. I have been saying that for years. “Why can’t we all work together?” But there comes a time when you have to look at where people stand and what their believes are. Unfortunately, not all people feel the same way and not all people have what is in the best interest for the wild horses. Just because a group has a large following, does not mean they are always right…or wrong.

      1. Yep, you are right. I must agree. What a blessing it would be to just leave them be. I visited the Pryors in 2011 ( Lori knows who I am) ….I was just a mess when I walked into The Mustang Center…I was so happy and so overcome to be there….it has been a childhood dream to see the mustangs…..I could hardly speak……and when I got to the Dryhead and saw my first wild west mustangs…wow…lets just say I had goosebumps. To me these animals carried our history on their backs, they are a symbol of wild and free! God help us all dont take our mustangs away!
        Wendy Hagen
        Clinton, Ohio

      2. These horses have a very special way of touching people. I can certainly attest to that. That is why I won’t choose one side or the other. I am simply here for the horses and will fight for them anyway I can.

      3. Yes Wendy, I remember very well meeting you and how “emotional & Passionate” you were about these horses, and how excited you were to go see them! I am with you on the “blessing” to leave them be, but until that happens, if ever, we have to try to persuade the “managers” to choose the right thing to do by the horses so that they survive WILD and FREE for hundreds of year to come.
        And Sandy….you have chosen a side…the horses side!!! 🙂

  3. I didn’t think I would see the day when TCF was labelled right alongside the BLM as trying to eradicate the wild horses. I do not always agree with their stance, but I was glad to see TCF looking at things from the standpoint that doing nothing (in terms of population control) wasn’t going to be a choice offered. With limited range (which they are still fighting to expand), working with the BLM to do something to prevent round-ups has the appearance of trying to help/compromise even if you don’t agree with PZP as the correct course of action. In other words, while I have not always seen eye to eye with every belief of TCF ( or ironically their use of extremism, such as being used against them here, to gather recruits and money), I don’t question that Ginger and the board love the horses and are against them being “extinct”.

    Some may detest that I often seem middle of the road, but don’t mistake it for not having passion or caring. I just think things are not always black-and-white and extreme stances rarely lead to solutions. I saw the same attitudes while reading month old article about the proposed fluoridation in Sheridan this morning. There are pros and cons there, too. The funny thing is that the people on the side I would be on were the most obnoxious and prone to use blatant misinformation and name-calling. Almost makes me hope my side loses. Almost.

    One last thought or question when considering the “natural selection”. While talking to a man at the interpretive site on mustang flats we ended up discussing what animals were on the mountain. He asked about wolves, and there aren’t any there yet, but they have traveled far from Yellowstone and could end up there. We were wondering how well the horses would be able to adapt if a pack did move into the area and decided to pray on either them or the foals. Not a pleasant thought and hopefully we never find out. If they did though, do we just let the horses fend for themselves and let nature take its course?

    I for one would wonder if nonresidents can get a wolf license or only Montana residents.

    1. ^ Sorry for the typos. ( prey, grammar) etc
      I also want to point out that I am NOT for PZP to ALL mares or changing much from the current model. I especially think that if they are going to expand the range (option 3 or 4 from this summer), then you wouldn’t change anything until that was done and taken into account. I do think selective PZP ( such as now) is a viable option to maintain herd size while still allowing for “surprises” and future relaxation if numbers either could grow or are needed to grow.

      1. Oh whew, I guess you wrote this while I was responding to your last comment.
        I thought we were on the same page.
        Please don’t forget to send in your comment.

        I for one would not want to witness a wolf, bear or mountain lion take down one of the horses or their foals. But we do have to ask ourselves if controlling them artificially is really any better.

        I am simply here for the horses (as I have stated in an above comment and numerous times on this blog). There is no “donate” button here. And I will do anything I have to for them. Including trying to get enough comments submitted to make a difference.

    2. Shawn, Thank you for your comment. This is not because of PZP, but because TCF is asking for an extreme increase in the existing program. I am not against PZP, but I am against wanting a more extreme program. Have you missed the other posts I did? You may want to go back and read them.

      I am not opposed to them working with the BLM, just opposed to them asking for this new proposal.

      I too am shocked at the turn of events with TCF. If we all set around and not write our comments in regards to this, there is a possibility we could be watching this herd disappear genetically.

      I saw something today that I thought helped with understanding this:

      “Grab a plate and throw it on the ground.
      –Okay, done.
      Did it break?
      –Yes
      Now say sorry to it.
      –Sorry
      Did it go back to the way it was before?
      __No
      Do you understand?”

      Once it is gone, it is gone.

      As for the wolf license thing, you may want to check with the State of Montana on that.

      1. I don’t necessarily want to hunt wolf in Montana now. We have a season in Wyoming I didn’t do last year. If the wolves were up near the range, then I would want to. It is only $50 for a nonresident and probably a little for conservation stamps.

        I see that you saw my other post. I know you are not anti-PZP use at all, and I think you have done a good job of putting information out so people know what is going on. You had the TCF-BLM article up before this, and you sounded about where I am in that things should stay like they are for now because it seems to be working pretty well. I think the foals this year won’t be too high above the possible losses. We know of a few losses for sure, but there are quite a few that are probables. If they do expand as expected by the BLM-preferred option, then adding 7-10 to the horse numbers each of the next few years shouldn’t hurt and then they can re-evaluate.

        I was just shocked that TCF was on the “anti-horse” side of an extreme “end-of-the-world” rant (by Save Mustangs, not you). While the board members may not do it themselves anymore, they don’t seem to mind when one of their followers(TCFers) goes ballistic and stirs the anti-BLM sentiment, and don’t correct any misinformation. I found it very ironic that when they were actually trying to work with the BLM, the same tactics that many of the TCFers used for years was used on the TCF itself. I don’t believe in kharma, but this would be an example of it.

      2. Thanks Shawn for your comment. I do appreciate it. But like I stated above, I will do anything to get the word out to submit comments out for the “No Action”. Which would mean the PZP program would stay as is until 2015. I don’t agree totally with the Protect the Mustangs stance. But I did have a long phone conversation with Anne Novak, (who used to work for TCF) and she knows how I feel. I also found it interesting that a current board member of TCF (Craig Downer) submitted a comment back in April against increasing the PZP program. I guess TCF board members do not have the final say in what goes on over there. I do however appreciate the Protect the Mustangs trying to get the word out. The horses need those comments. I hope you intend to make one. There is no gray here, only black or white.

        You are a science teacher. I encourage you to do some more studying and see what may occur if the increased plan does go into effect.

        As for hunting. I have made everything in my life pretty open on this blog, so I may as well let this be known:

        Neither my husband or I hunt. But I am not opposed to it? Heck, I live in Montana, I can’t be! HA But, I am not opposed to it IF it is to fill a freezer. I am however opposed to trophy hunting. WHO eats a wolf?? I consider that trophy hunting.

        If it is for a rancher to protect his live stock. By all means…but there are other ways to protect your live stock. Am I a wolf lover? I am not sure. I do know I am not a hater. But I can tell you this. If a wolf (and yes, I live in wolf country, not in town) ever came on my property and attacked one of my animals,(despite the other efforts I have made to protect them) I would not hesitate to shoot it (and yes, I do own a gun).

        Oh, and yes, I do believe in Karma.

      3. I do like wolves, which is part of why I don’t feel a need to hunt them. I have had chances at coyote and haven’t even shot them. I do eat wild meat for all my steak/burger needs, and even like antelope. I did know what you thought about hunting.

        I don’t know how things work in TCF, but I think it was 2 summers ago that I told you member had suggested a year of PZP for every mare on the Pryors, with no foals. Maybe a few have more say than others.

        I don’t need to study more. I am firm in belief that they do not need to increase PZP efforts. I also disagree with their 90-120 number. I know they will sitck by it, but even old studies NREL/USGS and reports like Singer’s suggest about 160 for genetic viability. I plan on getting a comment in on the PZP proposal and might as well mention my ideas on the Pryor numbers while I am at it. I am on the range enough (you are one of the few people more than I am this year) that I can see they are healthy and the forage is doing ok. Yes, there are up and down years, but I think the range could support 200. The NREL study would support that, although that was during the FS open time. Administrative pastures should put it back there.

      4. Thank you Shawn! Maybe we need to pick up the phone every once in a while and talk about this stuff instead of using the internet. Seems our paths have not crossed much this year while on the mountain.

        You know what else would be really great for you to do? Make a post on your blog about the upcoming comment period, and let everyone know what you will be doing. That would be awesome! Every comment is needed right now.

        I also do agree that the range could support more horses. But one step at a time.

        Document, document, document while you are there (I know you do as I do).

        Thanks again!

      5. I did contact the Lovell Chronicle to get this out to the people of Lovell too and I truly hope that many people write in their comments. We will see if we can make a difference for these horses.
        I am also going to contact a few Wyoming officials!
        All good points Shawn, and I also believe the range can support more horses which would mean this herd could probably control itself naturally. If given the chance it could work.

  4. I couldn’t agree more! Who are we as man to believe we have any right to “play” God’s role. It is one thing to collect a few horses each year but to determine what mares are fit to foal and which are not is far beyond our duty. Selective breeding will take so many necessary characteristics out of these horses that they need to survive that only natural selection can provide them with.

  5. As I’m reading these posts and comments, and trying to absorb any new info so I can make as well-informed comments as possible, I feel the presence of an “elephant in the room”. To me, that elephant is the fact that I BELIEVE that TCF is an organization with many good, well-informed folks in it, but their main concern is Cloud and his family, NOT the old bloodline, primitive markings and characteristics and the purest genetics in the herd. And they have the right to worship him, and fight for him, because he is beautiful, spirited and fun to watch; but the fact is he is not the main reason this herd is considered a national treasure in everyone’s minds.

    It never ceases to disturb me how so many people who comment about these horses don’t have a clue how important their history is and how important it is to foster and protect those primitive characteristics. It scares me to think that mishandling this PZP thing—and there are many ways it could be mishandled—could jeopardize the very factors that make this herd so unique among the many thousands of “wild horses”. They aren’t just “wild horses”, and should not be treated as such. And I don’t mean that the other herds are not important. I respect every horse that walks this earth, but I am a realist as well as a romanticist, and I have chosen to put my money and caring into this herd because of it’s uniqueness, which I learned about BEFORE I learned about Cloud and all the wonderful stories Ginger has provided the public with. It was the old bloodline look of the duns, and all the variations of duns, and the grullas and grullos, and the long story of all the people who have fought to keep this herd alive, starting with Bessie Tillet and her sons, right thru today, that made such an impression on me.

    I could go on and on about details of all this stuff, but I won’t. I will just say that I’m in support of a PZP program—the one that was set up most recently and is just now coming to fruition, especially since it appears that it will work even better in the future as the administration of it becomes more streamlined. My gut feeling is that it would be better to have just a few too many foals sometime, if things don’t go right, than to get too close to the “point of no return” on genetic viability, if things don’t go right. It wouldn’t hurt to have a bit more data to refer to on the long-term effects of this program on these horses, before they jump in with a new formula, either. Ever heard the saying “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” ? Well I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the current PZP program formula. It just needs to be administered effectively. I don’t believe in change just for the sake of change, and I’m not convinced that is not what this whole new thing is about. A way to make a big impression.

    Thanks to all who provide is with good info and comments.

  6. On the subject of wolves, the protective part of me hopes they never reach the PMWHR, but if they do, they will undoubtedly become a factor that will affect the need for birth control in the herd. There are many wolves near where I live, and they do affect the populations of the animals they prey on, SERIOUSLY. And they have shown themselves to not be afraid to approach horses if they encounter them, whether our DNR wants to admit it or not.

    One wolf is not a big threat, but they live and hunt in packs and the pack mentality is way different than one animal. I’m way more concerned about encountering a pack of wolves while venturing into a wilderness area than I am of encountering a bear. My only concern with a bear would be if I accidentally came between a sow and her cubs. With a pack of wolves, they would just have to be hungry.

    I REALLY hope they don’t become a subject of consideration on the PMWHR in the future.

  7. I mailed my PZP comments to BLM today. With the Labor Day holiday weekend, Sepember 6 is coming up quickly. Let’s all be sure to get our comments submitted before the deadline. Thanks, Sandy, for the in-depth info and keeping us updated on this situation.

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