The Color Game. What Color Will The Foals Be This Year?

Once again, this blog brought me together with another new friend, Kiya.   She is a High School student from Arizona.  Kiya posted this color chart of the possible colors of this years foals based on the parents color.  I asked her if I could make a post with her results so everyone could see.

It will be fun to see how it all works out this spring!   Thanks Kiya for sharing.

Sandy

Missoula , May 2012
Missoula , May 2012

Here are the possible foal colors for the year of 2013. I only calculated the colors of the foals of the mares that could possibly foal (no PZP). I did not include the missing mare because we have no clue who the father could be L. The calculations should be near correct, but since we can not go out and test for the color genes, I have left each as heterozygous instead of homozygous for their respective genes.

Icara and Durango’s foal could be a good number of colors.

Durango, July 2012
Durango, July 2012
Durango and Icara, July 2012
Durango and Icara, July 2012

16.67% -Buckskin Roan

16.67% -Buckskin

16.67% -Bay Roan

16.67% -Bay

8.33% -Palomino Roan

8.33% -Palomino

8.33% -Chestnut Roan

8.33% -Chestnut

Fresia, May 18, 2012
Fresia, May 18, 2012
Merlin, May 18, 2012
Merlin, May 18, 2012

I don’t know if either of Fresia or Merlin are homozygous for the dun gene, so I put them both as heterozygous. But the foal will most likely be grullo.

70.31% -Grullo

23.44% -Black

4.69% -Red Dun

1.56% -Chestnut

Hidalgo, July 2012
Hidalgo, July 2012
Merlin, May 2012
Merlin, May 2012
Halo and Montana, May 2012
Halo and Montana, May 2012

Until the foal is born we don’t know if the father to Halo’s foal is Merlin’s or Hidalgo’s, so I have included both.

If Merlin is the father, the foal will probably be bay or bay dun (the usually variety of dun you see).

35.16% -Bay Dun

35.16% -Bay

page1image13280

11.72% -Grullo

11.72% -Black

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

If Hidalgo is the father, the foal will most likely be bay.

58.34% -Bay

33.33% -Chestnut

8.33% -Black

Halcyon, July 2012
Halcyon, July 2012
Blue Moon, August 2012
Blue Moon, August 2012

Halcyon’s foal will most likely be a roan… 100% chance if Blue Moon is homozygous for roan.

25.00% -Blue Roan

25.00% -Bay Roan

25.00% -Chestnut Roan

8.33% -Black

8.33% -Bay

8.33% -Chestnut

Isadora, September 2010
Isadora, September 2010

Isadora’s foal will probably be black or blue roan, again depending on whether or not Blue Moon is homozygous for roan.

46.88% -Blue Roan

46.88% -Black

3.13% -Chestnut Roan 3.13% -Chestnut

Gabrielle, July 2011
Gabrielle, July 2011
Cappuccino, July 8, 2012
Cappuccino, July 8, 2012

Gabrielle’s foal will most likely be dun, since she and Cappucino carry the dun gene.

52.73% -Bay Dun

17.58% -Grullo

17.58% -Bay

5.86% -Black

4.69% -Red Dun

1.56% -Chestnut

Fiasco, October, 2011
Fiasco, October, 2011
Custer, August 2012
Custer, August 2012

There is a good possibility that Fiasco and Custer’s foal could be grullo roan. 50% chance the foal will be roan, possibly more if we knew if Custer was homozygous for roan.

23.44% -Grullo Roan

23.44% -Grullo

23.44% -Blue Roan

23.44% -Black

1.56% -Red Dun Roan

1.56% -Red Dun

1.56% -Chestnut Roan

1.56% -Chestnut

Fools Gold, August 31, 2012
Fools Gold, August 31, 2012
Coroando floats in the clouds back to his band after chasing Santa Fe and Judith.
Coroando floats in the clouds back to his band after chasing Santa Fe and Judith.  August 2012

Fools Gold’s and Coronado’s foal is pretty much a lottery. Quite a few color possibilities.

14.58% -Bay Roan

14.58% -Bay Dun Roan

14.58% -Bay Dun

14.58% -Bay

8.33% -Red Dun Roan

8.33% -Red Dun

8.33% -Chestnut Roan

8.33% -Chestnut

2.08% -Grullo Roan

2.08% -Grullo

2.08% -Blue Roan 2.08% -Black

Dove, October 2010
Dove, October 2010

Dove’s and Coronado’s even moreso:

8.33% -Grullo Roan

8.33% -Grullo
8.33% -Blue Roan

8.33% -Black

8.33% -Bay Roan

8.33% -Bay Dun Roan

8.33% -Bay Dun

8.33% -Bay

8.33% -Red Dun Roan

8.33% -Red Dun 8.33% -Chestnut Roan 8.33% -Chestnut

Demure and her colt, May 20, 2012
Demure and her colt, May 20, 2012
Doc
Doc

Demure’s and Doc’s foal will most likely be grullo or black:

46.88% -Grullo

46.88% -Black

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

Garciana, July 30, 2012
Garciana, July 30, 2012
Duke, July 7, 2012
Duke, July 7, 2012

Graciana’s and Duke’s foal:

23.44% -Grullo

23.44% -Black

23.44% -Bay Dun

23.44% -Bay

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

Helenium, August, 2011
Helenium, August, 2011

Helenium and Duke’s foal:

43.95% -Bay Dun

43.95% -Bay

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

2.93% -Grullo

2.93% -Black

Maia and Hera, June, 2012.
Maia and Hera, June, 2012.
Galaxy, July, 2011
Galaxy, July, 2011

Hera and Galaxy’s foal:

46.88% -Blue Roan

46.88% -Black

3.13% -Chestnut Roan

3.13% -Chestnut

Greta and Millicent, September 2012.
Greta and Millicent, September 2012.
Garcia
Garcia

Greta and Garcia’s foal:

46.88% -Bay Dun

46.88% -Bay

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

Galadrial, May 19, 2012
Galadrial, May 19, 2012
Tecumseh, July 31, 2012
Tecumseh, July 31, 2012
Gringo, July 30, 2012
Gringo, July 30, 2012

Since it is not certain that the father of Galadriel’s foal is Tecumseh or Gringo, I have included them both.

Galadriel and Tecumseh:

33.34% -Bay Roan

33.34% -Bay
16.67% -Chestnut Roan

16.67% -Chestnut

Galadriel and Gringo:

93.75% -Bay

6.25% -Chestnut

Firstorm
Firestorm, February 2013
Jackson, October, 2011.
Jackson, October, 2011.

Firestorm and Jackson

I had previously calculated this but after seeing many photos of Jackson, I have determined is a dark dun instead of a bay. If he is bay…. Sorry.

43.95% -Bay Roan

43.95% -Bay Dun Roan

3.13% -Red Dun Roan

3.13% -Chestnut Roan

2.93% -Grullo Roan

2.93% -Blue Roan

Galena, February 2013
Galena, February 2013

Galena and Jackson:

35.16% -Bay Dun

35.16% -Bay

11.72% -Grullo

11.72% -Black

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

Heritage, February 2013
Heritage, February 2013

Heritage and Jackson:

21.97% -Bay Roan

21.97% -Bay Dun Roan

21.97% -Bay Dun

21.97% -Bay

1.56% -Red Dun Roan

1.56% -Red Dun

1.56% -Chestnut Roan

1.56% -Chestnut

1.46% -Grullo Roan

1.46% -Grullo

1.46% -Blue Roan

1.46% -Black

Hailstorm, August, 2012
Hailstorm, August, 2012
Morning Star, June, 2012
Morning Star, June, 2012

I can’t tell if Morning Star is a faded black or a dark bay, but he looks more like dark bay so that’s what I have him as.

Hailstorm and Morning Star:

35.16% -Bay Roan

35.16% -Bay

11.72% -Blue Roan

11.72% -Black

3.13% -Chestnut Roan

3.13% -Chestnut

Gaelic Princess , August, 2012
Gaelic Princess , August, 2012

Gaelic Princess and Morning Star (the same parents of Kelly)

23.44% -Grullo

23.44% -Black

23.44% -Bay Dun

23.44% -Bay

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

Hataalli, July 31, 2012
Hataalli, July 31, 2012

Hataalii and Morning Star

43.95% -Bay Dun

43.95% -Bay

3.13% -Red Dun

3.13% -Chestnut

2.93% -Grullo

2.93% -Black

Half Moon and Teton:

35.16% -Bay Roan 35.16% -Bay

11.72% -Blue Roan 11.72% -Black

3.13% -Chestnut Roan 3.13% -Chestnut

Cloud, October, 2011
Cloud, October, 2011
Feldspar, July 2011
Feldspar, July 2011

Feldspar and White Cloud:

WHEW!! Mystery foal! I would personally want to see a dunskin roan.

4.17% -Black
4.17% -Buckskin
4.17% -Bay
4.17% -Blue Roan
4.17% -Smoky Grullo Roan

4.17% -Dunskin Roan

4.17% -Buckskin Roan

4.17% -Grullo Roan
4.17% -Dunskin
4.17% -Bay Roan
4.17% -Bay Dun Roan

4.17% -Bay Dun
4.17% -Smoky Black

4.17% -Smoky Blue Roan

4.17% -Smoky Grullo

4.17% -Grullo
4.17% -Chestnut
4.17% -Chestnut Roan

4.17% -Dunalino Roan

4.17% -Palomino
4.17% -Palomino Roan

4.17% -Red Dun

4.17% -Red Dun Roan

4.17% -Dunalino

Inocentes, February 2013
Inocentes, February 2013

Inocentes and White Cloud:

7.29% -Dunskin

7.29% -Bay Dun

7.29% -Bay Dun Roan

7.29% -Bay Roan

7.29% -Buckskin

7.29% -Buckskin Roan

7.29% -Bay

7.29% -Dunskin Roan 4.17% -Chestnut
4.17% -Chestnut Roan 4.17% -Dunalino Roan 4.17% -Palomino
4.17% -Palomino Roan 4.17% -Red Dun
4.17% -Red Dun Roan 4.17% -Dunalino
1.04% -Smoky Grullo Roan

1.04% -Grullo

1.04% -Grullo Roan

1.04% -Blue Roan
1.04% -Black
1.04% -Smoky Black 1.04% -Smoky Blue Roan 1.04% -Smoky Grullo

Kiya

Logo designed by Amber Bushnell
Logo designed by Amber Bushnell

36 thoughts on “The Color Game. What Color Will The Foals Be This Year?

  1. This was fun to see!!! 🙂 made it home safe. Happy Birthday Eve! Love you xoxoxo

    Sent from my iPhone

    amberstudio.net

  2. Wow! This is great. And looks like it took a lot of work. It will be fun to see how close the predictions are!
    Thank you both for sharing (:

  3. Sandy, I appreciated you for taking so much time and effort to create this fun color game. It will be very interesting to see the results.
    Thanks to both Kiya and Sandy.

  4. Despite all of the odds and knowing how well genetics works as a science teacher, the underdog router in me is going “Come on 1.56% percent chance of Chestnut Roan” etc. Dunskin roan does sound fun.

    Thank you for calculating the odds, Kiya, and for posting them, Sandy.

  5. Very interesting. Lots of time and effort from you both. I’ve never heard or seen the duns described as “bay” duns, tho, and Duke is Red Bay and Jackson is Coyote Dun. The sooty trim on the coyotes sets them apart from the regular duns. Blizzard and Durango are Apricot Duns, with Jemez being Apricot Dun Roan. But, I’m finding that there are as many terms for the colors as there are experts recording them. I especially love the golden highlights that show thru Dove’s Dark Buckskin coat. She’s pretty unique. I’ve seen that on one or two other horses from different ranges, but only one or two. It really is going to be fun seeing what palette Nature applies to the new little lives, and how many surprises are in store for us. And, of course, then there are the changes that keep happening for the first few months. 🙂 Patience will certainly be a virtue in playing this game. 🙂

      • Hi Linda, Thanks. Yes, most of us know the “listed colors” of the horses. But like I also said to Alex in response to his comment. Why not let someone who is new to the horses give it a try and give us her perspective. We never know what will happen really. I am just excited to get some younger people involved with the horses. Give us all some fresh ideas and carry on the torch for the love of these horses.
        You may find it interesting to click on the link below. It shows the choices for color. Coyote Dun, Apricot Dun and Red Bay, are not a listed option. Here is that link:
        http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp
      1. You misunderstood if you think my comments were meant to discourage Kiya’s interest in the horses or anyone’s participation in the color game. I truly welcome her to the fold and respect her ability to apply science to Nature. I’m betting her calculations will prove accurate (with descriptions according to her terminology for the colors), at least part of the time. But we all know that Nature has a way of humbling mankind with unpredictable outcomes, so Shawn will probably win out with his wish for some of the less probables among the new foals. And, of course, with conceptions occurring in the wild, there are many chances for the sire not actually being who we think it was, anyway. Some of those girls have had more than one guy in their lives at just the right time. 🙂 And it is REALLY fun to see foals develop to their true colors. One case in point about the changes that happen in the first few months that I was really aware of was how light Montana was when he was new and how he began to darken so much by the time I got pictures of him. And how about the changes we’ve seen in Mica?! I’d say we don’t know for sure on him yet. Thus, I say, patience is a virtue in this game. =D

        I’d bet that as Kiya learns more about the horses and sees more pictures of them in different lighting, etc., she will be impressed by the variety of coat and mane/tail colorations, and the beauty of these horses will boggle her mind. As a matter of fact, I can see that coming on in her words in her reply to Alex. And, Kiya, I would be interested in hearing what term you would use to describe Medicine Bow, who is known as Sabino.

        In referring to the horses’ coloring, I’ve been going by the information I have that came from the experts like those who did the genetic testing long ago that proved the lineage of the Pryor Mountain Mustangs whose heritage is unique and from the charting experts did of the colors, some of which are unique to these type of horses and do not necessarily line up exactly with today’s terminologies for “all” horses. They are the colors of the PMWMs that have been and still are used on the “list” mentioned.
        I guess I feel like it’s kind of like the new math—new words to use and new ways to come up with the same answer. I don’t feel the need to change what has been in place for decades, but I do respect others’ rights to use their own terminology, just as I treasure my own right to use what I have already learned.

        I also found it interesting that the dictionary describes the term “dun” as in a dun horse, as “having a grayish-yellow coat with a black mane and tail”. That yellow must be what shines like gold when they are seen in certain light… something I really love about the many duns on the PMWHR.

        Bottom line is—I’m looking forward to hearing more from Kiya’s point of view, maybe learning some things from her, and it won’t bother me if she doesn’t agree with mine. I think it’s safe to guess that we agree on one thing for sure, and that’s that these are BEAUTIFUL HORSES. =D

        So either bay or dun—not bay dun?

      2. Not discouraged at all 🙂
        Medicine Bow looks like red dun sabino. Not just sabino because sabino is a color pattern… like tobiano or overo (which as far as I am concerned, do not exist in the Pryor herd but I could be wrong) and his color pattern is on top of red dun.
        And bay dun is the proper term for “dun”. Take Cappucino for example. He is bay dun. Normally, they are just called dun, but because the color is technically the dun gene diluting the bay gene, in calculators it is called bay dun. Thanks for your comment 😀

      3. Hi Linda, No one is proposing we change or call the colors by a different name. Those are just their scientific names for the sake of determining a possible foal color. This was taken off of the PMWMC website: Duns are BAY horses affected by the dun allele.
        Here is that direct link so you can refer to it: http://www.pryormustangs.org/colors_conformation.shtml
        Thanks for pointing that out, it made me re-read those colors on the PMWMC and by doing that helped me better understand Kiya’s terminology.

    1. Well… see, there is no specific gene that we are aware of that contributes to a specific shade of color. There is no such thing as a “red bay” or a “coyote dun”… they are either bay or dun. Jackson, I believe, is a very sooty dun, but like Sandy said, there is no choice for that, because there is no gene for that. The color you are referring to is called red dun, which is the dun gene on top of the sorrel gene. I was not quite sure what color Durango was because I did not have the horse list and I could not tell from the few photos I had. He is, however, red dun. Bay duns are just the normal duns you see. They are called bay duns because it is the dun gene on top of bay. Jemez looks to me like a normal red roan, not a red dun roan, but I could be wrong 🙂 Thanks for your comment.

      1. Hi Kiya! Its nor exactly trew… you see the Aguti gene ( the gene that causes bay) has 3 different alleles( mutations or variants of the gene) .
        The first one is “A+” that is the most dominant of all and causes “wild bay”.
        Then there is “A” that causes general bay and then there is “At” which is Brown. Brown is nor black or bay . Bay and brown as you know are considered base colors because they are affected by all the other dilutes and modifiers . Coyote dun is also called “brown dun” because unlike regular dun that has Bay as a base color , Coyote dun’s have Brown as there base color.
        Your interest and dedication to study horse color genetics is really wonderful! I am very interested in it as well.
        hear is a link to a very good horse color genetic web site. It has a lot of very interesting information! 🙂

        http://www.horse-genetics.com/horse-colors.html

        there is also a game that I found about a year ago on horse color genetics, it is quite fun and it gives people a visual example of the interaction among the colors. I really recommend you try it 🙂

        http://www.jenniferhoffman.net/horse/horse-color-genetics.html#0000200040

      2. Thank you for the links 🙂
        However, the calculator I have (Sandy posted the link earlier) does not have the A+ or the At gene listed as a choice. Thank you for explaining the term coyote dun for me. I didn’t know about that.
        However… the A+ and the At gene have not been fully researched and the effects of it are not fully proved… which are why 1) the calculator does not include these colors and 2) I have decided not to include them. Though they do clearly exist in the Pryor herd. Thanks for sharing 😀

  6. thanks for he blog post! it must have really taken a lot of time !

    this is the link where you can calculate the color of a foal !

    http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp

    I would just like o correct a few things…

    Dove and coronado could never have a grullo or a dun..Dove is not a dun nor a grulla, she is a brown or smooty buckskin…

    Icara and Durango can’t have a buckskin or a palomino! she is not a smokey black, but actually she is just a brown !

    1. Hmm… you are right, Icara is not smokey black. I believed that Durango might have been a palomino, or some other color, but it has been brought to my attention that he is actually red dun. He might actually be dunalino though. I’m not completely sure.

      Also, Dove looks to be a sooty dun or perhaps a smokey grullo… she could even be a seriously sunfaded smokey black. I don’t have the horse list as of this very second (I don’t have my email open) but she has a dorsal stripe and the hue of her color tells me she is a sooty dun.

      Thank you for your comment 🙂

      1. Hi !!! Dove as a foal was a white buckskin with blue eyes and some sooty! she got the cream from her mother who is a palomino roan… her father Is a heterozygous black roan stallion..
        Dove’s first foal was a white buckskin and even her new daughter Melita is a Sooty/brown buckskin roan! 🙂

        The cream gene is very subtle in the pryors! 🙂 for instance Hailstorm is a Smokey blue roan!

  7. Very interesting, thanks for sharing!!! I’m sure that took some time! I’m looking forward to seeing the new babies!

  8. Loving this! My mind goes racing with images of the new little ones 😀
    But would an Isadora foal be from Mescalero or Blue Moon do you think? She changed band late may/early june? I actually don’t know how long they go pregnant:)

    1. Hi Anne! I would have to look it up to make sure, but I believe Isadora was with Blue Moon early last spring, so it would most likely be his. The gestation period for horses is around 11 months.

      1. I think it was late March/early April that she ended up with Flint. It was the same time that Lincoln and Lemhi both disapeared.

  9. Very interesting Kiya. It sure is nice to see another young lady take interest and become involved with this herd. I enjoyed reading this segment and it will be interesting to see what color’s the foals will be, and exactly who foals. This is fun!!
    Thanks Kiya, and thank you Sandy for posting this. Your photos are as usual, beautiful!
    My list shows that Isadora was with Blue Moon in June last year. In 2011, she was with Mescalero. So, I am thinking that her foal will be from Blue Moon!

  10. I love all these interesting links on here and on this subject. All the genetics info is mind boggling to me cause I’m a “what do I ‘see’? ” kind of person. Thanks everyone for all the cool contributions to the discussion, and especially to Sandy for providing this very vibrant forum for discussion. 🙂 It adds a whole new excitement to the anticipation of what this new season of foals will bring. ❤

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s