Removal Updates, July 30, 2012 # 20, 21, 22, 23,24, 25

I am camping under an almost full moon on top of the Pryors tonight.

I will share all of my updates when I get home.  I did see Washakie’s new foal, it is a filly and she is beautiful!

I just wanted to keep you up to date with the names of those removed.  I will post photos of them when I get home.

1. Kane

2. Leo

3. Kachina

4. Katrina

5. LaSalle

6. Jedediah


Logo designed by Amber Bushnell

38 thoughts on “Removal Updates, July 30, 2012 # 20, 21, 22, 23,24, 25

  • Darn on the removal—looking forward to pictures of the new filly, etc. I can imagine that it must be beautiful up there with a big moon. It would be great to get some “horses in the moonlight” pics!

  • I have the same sentiments as Linda and Maria, only I said damn… and really didn’t want to see Jedidiah go.

      • The BLM posted it on one of their updates… they answered Sandy’s question but it was days later. I’ll see if I can find it.

  • I know there’s still a lot I have to learn about these horses, but should they really remove so many of tier 2? Emotionally it’s just

    • Ups.. It’s just as hard whichever tier they are from, but the system was put there for a reason – to make the remaining as strong and diverse as possible. I’m getting more and more anxious about this. I also wish they would take in to concideration the horses that probably are deceased, and keep the offsprings on the range.
      This is sadly where my english falls a little bit through but I hope you understand what I mean.. It seems to me like some horses has a lot of offsprings left on the range while others have their only ones removed:/

      • Anne, I am going to try and answer you, although I often struggle with some of these questions myself. I am sure others also have answers. First, the mothers are the focus here because they can be positive who the mothers are, but not always who the fathers are unless they do a DNA test. So the tiers were set up keeping other offspring of the mother in mind, not necessarily the father. So far the only mother on the range without offspring is Heritage, and she is young enough to be able to have further offspring. This was also taken into consideration — whether or not the mother could have other foals. In the case of deceased mothers, they are all still represented on the range. Do you have a specific horse in mind?

      • and I was wrong again — there are others besides Heritage left without offspring, but all young…

    • And as of yesterday’s removals, 13 have been taken from Tier 1 and 12 from Tier 2, with Joviana being the only one from 3. They really have no control which horses enter the pens, some stallions seem to sense that something is wrong and try to keep members of their bands out… Hopefully, this will be over soon, only a few more to go. I am sure Sandy and Lori will have much to share when they get back.

      • Yes, thankfully they have reached their numbers soon and this can stop.
        I’m very thankful that you took the time and explained this to me. I didn’t know this was the way they decided, but of course it makes sense now that I hear it:)
        From the horses yestersay it was La Salle I was thinking about.. It says in the lists that his mother, Jacinta, only has one foal on the range and behind her it says “young, 1 more”. Does this mean she will only have one more foal? I also saw that she is one of two remaining offsprings from Rosebud.. Do you know who the other is?

      • Helenium is Jacinta’s sister. I am also confused about that last column… it has something to do with receiving PZP, the fertility drug. The same column for Helenium says “Untreated (6 more)”. We will have to ask Matt.

      • I think it means Jacinta may be given one more treatment of PZP, and Helenium will not be given PZP for six years. PZP is given to fillies ages 2, 3, and 4, and mares ages 11+. Mares ares 5-10 are not treated and can have foals; though some foals may come to mares on PZP. PZP is a one year dose.

        Hope that helps!

    • I was up on the mountain off and on since last Monday. While they are removing Tier 2, they are all Tier 2A that they are looking for. To make the number they want, Tier 1 would not be enough as it is. The odds of getting every Tier 1 in is low. There would be times of the day when they wouldn’t have nay horses coming in. Then, all of a sudden, all of the horses would seem to come at once. They would see some they wanted moving toward the trap, and then another stallion would move in and they wouldn’t get who they wanted. Some fo the tier 1’s, like July, are going to be harder anyway, because Madonna is semi-reclusive and July stays with her even when Duke moves in to the trap area. I think that is why tier 2A is really more like a tier 1B.
      I think they still want a few from the dryhead, like Johann and Jalisco. Jalisco is one of the few I didn’t see this week and Johann was up on lower sykes, so they might not get them. Kerry is down there now and I think on the list, with Durango. I was talking to a guy doing parasite tests today, and it sounded like he did Kerry’s foal yesterday( they use a number and don’t know names) and it tested high on both albumin and hemoglobin, so it might be interesting what BLM finds if they get her in. I have a brochure to read, and maybe then I can explain more of what they were doing with their preliminary sampling.

      • Thanks so much, Shawn, really appreciate your observations. It helps to have info from someone actually there.

      • Thanks Shawn:) That is interesting reading indeed! Information like this is highly appreciated. I know Jared and the guys are doing a tremedous job, but it’s easy to get the nerves in a jumble;)

  • Aha Clarissa! That helps clear things up:) Thank you.. That’s reassuring to know:)
    Sorry for all the questions;)

  • No one should feel bad about asking questions on here, or anywhere that there is good information, not just opinions. It’s the person who makes a decision about something WITHOUT investigating that’s a problem. I am not real good on all this scientific data and it takes me a while to absorb a lot of the details, but I would like to point out that I think we need to remember that the gather and adoption are not over, and many things MAY NOT happen that we’re worried about, and things MAY take place that we don’t have any idea about yet. Let’s not put the proverbial “horse before the cart” and come to premature conclusions. BUT one thing is definite and that is that Jovianna and her foal are much better off where they now have food and water readily available without a lot of energy expended to obtain either, or to keep up with all the normal acitvity within a herd. Whether they are adopted or not, the outcome will be better than if they hadn’t been gathered—of this I am absolutely sure.

  • Linda, you are the voice of reason today 🙂 I agree with you about asking questions and giving answers. And both Joviana and Malakai, along with Liesl, are definitely better off now. I am just keeping my fingers crossed as to what is happening in the Dryhead now. Hope Sandy and Lori have good news for us. And I hope Sandy doesn’t mind that we have spent so much time on her blog discussing matters without her 🙂

    • Like you, I can hardly wait for their next posts, and it was great to hear from Shawn. So far, so good. At least there are no foals being run til their tender little feet bleed and mares becoming dehydrated.

    • I don’t think she’ll mind the discussion. Her goal for this blog is the dispensing and exchange of accurate information among those interested in ALL the horses on the PMWHR, and that is what this all is. If any of us have inadvertently said something inaccurate, she’ll be able to correct it soon. A Native American saying I heard not long ago about the wild horses is that the “horses will find who they need”. I sure am glad they’ve found all of us…

  • I feel that I’m becoming increasingly frustrated with this gather. Not in the method of capturing the horses or the care they are being given at Britton Springs. I know they are being treated well and Jared is doing a good job of taking care of them all and taking many things into consideration. I know these horses are lucky because at other gathers horses have been treated much worse. It’s the horses that they are bringing in that is frustrating me. I understand that with bait trapping it’s not as easy to capture the desired horses, but I feel like they aren’t following their plan as closely as I had believed they would. A lot of mares are being left with no offspring on the range. While the young mares falling into that category are likely to have more foals that’s not always the case. Many of the mares that have had their only offspring removed didn’t foal this year even though they were not given PZP. They’ve posted reasons for why the horses are in the tiers but a lot of tier 2 horses were said to be substituted if they’re tier 1 siblings couldn’t be caught. But in many cases both tier 1 and tier 2 siblings were removed leaving many mares with no offspring. This was especially brought to my attention when I read La Salle was removed because his description said since he had rare bloodlines from his mother he should only be removed if it was a choice between him and his mother. It just seems a cause for concern that so many of the “less desired” for removal have been removed. I’m not trying to start an arguement as I know there are many people involved in this gather who are doing their best and are concerned for the welfare of the horses and I’m glad for that. It just seems some of the horses they’ve taken weren’t the favorable option. Not that any of us is happy to see any of them go. At least they’re getting close to their number and this should be over soon. Sorry for the really long comment!

  • No need to apologize, Sarah, it’s a good expression of how a lot of us feel right now. I was reading the EA again today and realized that there really isn’t much difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2. “Tier two is composed of animals whose removal would also meet the objectives for the herd, but perhaps with other circumstances such as a tier one horse is not captured or if the dam of the identified horses would most likely have more opportunities to produce more foals due to her age and fertility control prescription. Tier two wild horses from young dams* would be priority in for removal. Tier one and two horses would be the focus for removal.” They never really said they were going to remove Tier 1 first, then go after Tier 2. And if you read Shawn’s post above, you will realize how hard it is to capture the ones they want. I have some concerns about mares left without offspring, but like the case of Lincoln and Lemhi, young ones can also go missing and their dams would be left without offspring. We can only hope that nature does take its course and they foal again. And foaling season isn’t over yet. I believe the difference between LaSalle and his mother is also because she can have other foals and the line would continue. I know this does not ease the frustration but hopefully it helps a little.

    • I guess I just somewhat prepared myself for the tier 1 removals more than the tier 2. It’s hard either way. If there has to be a removal I definitely prefer this method over a helicopter round up, but I see that it’s harder to get exactly who they want. 30-40 horses is a lot to take from this herd which I think can also make things more alarming. I think I read somewhere earlier today that they’re now focusing on getting the horses they want from Duke’s and Jackson’s bands and once they do they’re going to stop trapping on the mountain top and move back down to the horses they want from the dry head. I’ve also been hoping that they would count Lincoln and Lemhi along with the removed horses since they were in the age range targeted for this removal. Hopefully Sandy will have more positive things to fill us in on when she gets back!

      • I feel the same way you do… It was Shawn that mentioned the two bands, so I immediately had to go to the list to see who I DIDN’T want them to take. Well, that was dumb — I don’t want them to take anyone. And I want the to stay out of the Dryhead. There are too many that are special to me there. Hopefully they will count Lincoln and Lemhi and stop at the lower number… then it would be really cool if they showed up later like Kerry and Kitalpha did 🙂 Just trying to throw a little ray of sunshine in there. Yes, looking forward to when Sandy gets back, too. Shawn’s photos have really helped today!

  • Dear Sandy and Lori,

    Thank you for the update.
    It is a beautiful night. The moon is almost full. Please, enjoy your evening on the mountain top.

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